<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: The Engineering VP Who Couldn&#8217;t &#8220;Get&#8221; Product Positioning</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/</link>
	<description>Product management and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 12 Mar 2010 19:24:05 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=abc</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-1033</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-1033</guid>
		<description>If you&#039;re reporting to this Eng VP, then the right approach is William&#039;s IMHO - prioritization, preferably with clear feedback from the other parts of the org to inform/guide the ordering.  This one has the best chance of maintaining the relationship responsibly.

In the end, I&#039;ve never met an Engineering Mgr at any level who didn&#039;t appreciate (more correctly, clamor for) prioritization.  After all, its almost certainly how its going to get built - module by module, layer by layer - not all at once.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you&#8217;re reporting to this Eng VP, then the right approach is William&#8217;s IMHO &#8211; prioritization, preferably with clear feedback from the other parts of the org to inform/guide the ordering.  This one has the best chance of maintaining the relationship responsibly.</p>
<p>In the end, I&#8217;ve never met an Engineering Mgr at any level who didn&#8217;t appreciate (more correctly, clamor for) prioritization.  After all, its almost certainly how its going to get built &#8211; module by module, layer by layer &#8211; not all at once.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Valerie sanford</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-1032</link>
		<dc:creator>Valerie sanford</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Oct 2008 22:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-1032</guid>
		<description>For Vice Presidents of Engineering, who wants his technology to take over the world, the Product Positioning Statement is a prioritization tool that ensures resources are used effectively (giving you more resources to use), that the company stays in business and that customers get to use your technology and you become a hero.

Unlike working without a target audience, a Position Statement lets you build products people will want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For Vice Presidents of Engineering, who wants his technology to take over the world, the Product Positioning Statement is a prioritization tool that ensures resources are used effectively (giving you more resources to use), that the company stays in business and that customers get to use your technology and you become a hero.</p>
<p>Unlike working without a target audience, a Position Statement lets you build products people will want.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-998</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 23:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-998</guid>
		<description>What Rockannand said...

There are also dangers with being under the Marketing department too. The Marketing Manager often won&#039;t understand that it actually takes time and effort to create a product... this is especially true if it is a software product. &quot;Can&#039;t you just whip that up? It&#039;s only code...&quot;. Sure, we can cluge just about anything together, but it ain&#039;t going to work very well and we won&#039;t be able to build on it. We&#039;ll just have a one off orphaned product.

The Marketing Manager is also going to be pushing hard for revenue (at least at my company) especially at the end of the quarter. They are going to want to &quot;ship it&quot; even if it isn&#039;t shippable yet.

However, I still see it as being a better situation to report through marketing instead of engineering for a PM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Rockannand said&#8230;</p>
<p>There are also dangers with being under the Marketing department too. The Marketing Manager often won&#8217;t understand that it actually takes time and effort to create a product&#8230; this is especially true if it is a software product. &#8220;Can&#8217;t you just whip that up? It&#8217;s only code&#8230;&#8221;. Sure, we can cluge just about anything together, but it ain&#8217;t going to work very well and we won&#8217;t be able to build on it. We&#8217;ll just have a one off orphaned product.</p>
<p>The Marketing Manager is also going to be pushing hard for revenue (at least at my company) especially at the end of the quarter. They are going to want to &#8220;ship it&#8221; even if it isn&#8217;t shippable yet.</p>
<p>However, I still see it as being a better situation to report through marketing instead of engineering for a PM.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Rockannand</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-997</link>
		<dc:creator>Rockannand</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 14:28:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-997</guid>
		<description>Your problem is that you report to the R&amp;D guy, not marketing. Every Engineering VP/Entrepreneur/Founder/CTO/You-name-it guy or gal thinks that they have invented the perfect Ginsu knife SW solution for EVERYONE&#039;s problem. Typical inside-out thinking that ultimately kills every company, especially in downturn like the one we have now. 

You can have product mgmt report to R&amp;D, but product marketing should be under Marketing to avoid the ginsu knife marketing syndrome. If you don&#039;t pick a defensible target audience to actually market and sell to for your prospective buyers, then you won&#039;t be on too many shopping lists. 

Save the ginsu knife positioning for investors and internal discussions so you can tout how big your market will ultimately be, assuming that you can actually execute for every audience in the universe. 

When I have had pig-headed executives outside of sales and marketing to deal with, I simply take them to one of my analysts&#039; friends at Forrester, Gartner, (you name your favorite) and do an &quot;off-the-record&quot; briefing (sort of a &quot;what do you think of this?&quot; briefing before the launch) to get their reaction to the ginsu knife approach. Then i let the analyst blast away. It usually starts a Q&amp;A session between the Engineering guy or gal and the analyst that ends the internal positioning debate with a huge slice of humble pie.

My other favorite tactic is to bring the Engineering ginsu knife proponent to one of the Pragmatic Marketing public classes. That also results in another HUGE slice of humble pie. 

If neither tactic works and you report to this person, then its time to update the resume because that company is in deep do-do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Your problem is that you report to the R&amp;D guy, not marketing. Every Engineering VP/Entrepreneur/Founder/CTO/You-name-it guy or gal thinks that they have invented the perfect Ginsu knife SW solution for EVERYONE&#8217;s problem. Typical inside-out thinking that ultimately kills every company, especially in downturn like the one we have now. </p>
<p>You can have product mgmt report to R&amp;D, but product marketing should be under Marketing to avoid the ginsu knife marketing syndrome. If you don&#8217;t pick a defensible target audience to actually market and sell to for your prospective buyers, then you won&#8217;t be on too many shopping lists. </p>
<p>Save the ginsu knife positioning for investors and internal discussions so you can tout how big your market will ultimately be, assuming that you can actually execute for every audience in the universe. </p>
<p>When I have had pig-headed executives outside of sales and marketing to deal with, I simply take them to one of my analysts&#8217; friends at Forrester, Gartner, (you name your favorite) and do an &#8220;off-the-record&#8221; briefing (sort of a &#8220;what do you think of this?&#8221; briefing before the launch) to get their reaction to the ginsu knife approach. Then i let the analyst blast away. It usually starts a Q&amp;A session between the Engineering guy or gal and the analyst that ends the internal positioning debate with a huge slice of humble pie.</p>
<p>My other favorite tactic is to bring the Engineering ginsu knife proponent to one of the Pragmatic Marketing public classes. That also results in another HUGE slice of humble pie. </p>
<p>If neither tactic works and you report to this person, then its time to update the resume because that company is in deep do-do.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Howard</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-991</link>
		<dc:creator>Howard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:54:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-991</guid>
		<description>I also agree William has nailed it.  But, the VP&#039;s attitude seems a recipe for your personal demise.  So, time to pass the buck a bit.  What I like to do here is go to the sales team and the other executives to define the corporate target market, and have them help with the prioritization.  Unless this is a brand new company, then some demographic is already established, or certainly the CEO understands that the &quot;everyone with money&quot; although a fantastic revenue base, is not realistic.  So if you get others in the organization to help, that alleviates the boomerang from your boss of &quot;well this market you picked isn&#039;t buying, so you obviously don&#039;t know what you are doing.&quot;  To the extreme, but keeping your nose clean (or your jeans since we don&#039;t see your nose) is always good to keep in mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also agree William has nailed it.  But, the VP&#8217;s attitude seems a recipe for your personal demise.  So, time to pass the buck a bit.  What I like to do here is go to the sales team and the other executives to define the corporate target market, and have them help with the prioritization.  Unless this is a brand new company, then some demographic is already established, or certainly the CEO understands that the &#8220;everyone with money&#8221; although a fantastic revenue base, is not realistic.  So if you get others in the organization to help, that alleviates the boomerang from your boss of &#8220;well this market you picked isn&#8217;t buying, so you obviously don&#8217;t know what you are doing.&#8221;  To the extreme, but keeping your nose clean (or your jeans since we don&#8217;t see your nose) is always good to keep in mind.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Jan-Joost</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-990</link>
		<dc:creator>Jan-Joost</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 16:11:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-990</guid>
		<description>I once got the question &quot;So how many users do we lose with this &#039;positioning&#039; of yours?&quot; in a similar situation... 

Seth Godin&#039;s book &#039;Purple Cow&#039; is a must read on the positioning subject. Lot&#039;s of refreshing examples.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I once got the question &#8220;So how many users do we lose with this &#8216;positioning&#8217; of yours?&#8221; in a similar situation&#8230; </p>
<p>Seth Godin&#8217;s book &#8216;Purple Cow&#8217; is a must read on the positioning subject. Lot&#8217;s of refreshing examples.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nils Davis</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-986</link>
		<dc:creator>Nils Davis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2008 00:34:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-986</guid>
		<description>Definitely like William Pietri&#039;s suggestion - total jujitsu. 

Another possible approach: &quot;&#039;Cause the sales people aren&#039;t too bright, we need to give them a very specific demo to go after, where they can have a single consistent message, otherwise they&#039;ll just be floppin&#039; around like fish out of water.&quot;

The more rational version of that is to note that sales can only grow at so fast a rate. So don&#039;t target the entire world out of the gate when you can only sell to a very small portion of it realistically. 

Does this VP not realize that it takes different channels, stories, capabilities, and approaches to sell to different market segments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Definitely like William Pietri&#8217;s suggestion &#8211; total jujitsu. </p>
<p>Another possible approach: &#8220;&#8216;Cause the sales people aren&#8217;t too bright, we need to give them a very specific demo to go after, where they can have a single consistent message, otherwise they&#8217;ll just be floppin&#8217; around like fish out of water.&#8221;</p>
<p>The more rational version of that is to note that sales can only grow at so fast a rate. So don&#8217;t target the entire world out of the gate when you can only sell to a very small portion of it realistically. </p>
<p>Does this VP not realize that it takes different channels, stories, capabilities, and approaches to sell to different market segments?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: GTA</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-985</link>
		<dc:creator>GTA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 15:15:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-985</guid>
		<description>I have similar disconnects.  Sadly, I do not report to the Sr. VP of Engineering (thank god), but instead to our division&#039;s general manager.

He talks like he believes in positioning out one side of his mouth, and then does his best to undermine proper positioning, and sing kumbaya to address everyone everywhere with everything we do.  

Then he has the gall to fail to understand the reasons why our competition, with well targeted products and tight positioning, are eating our lunch.

Time to find an escape route.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have similar disconnects.  Sadly, I do not report to the Sr. VP of Engineering (thank god), but instead to our division&#8217;s general manager.</p>
<p>He talks like he believes in positioning out one side of his mouth, and then does his best to undermine proper positioning, and sing kumbaya to address everyone everywhere with everything we do.  </p>
<p>Then he has the gall to fail to understand the reasons why our competition, with well targeted products and tight positioning, are eating our lunch.</p>
<p>Time to find an escape route.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Stewart Rogers</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-984</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 13:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-984</guid>
		<description>Surely he understands the constraints of a budget?   Specifically on the Sales and Marketing side of engaging &#039;everyone&#039;.  If everyone is truly the market then maybe a roadmap to show the execution into that very broad market is necessary.  Of course you will need data to support your priority for tackling certain markets first.  Or data to prove that going after all markets is a bad idea.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Surely he understands the constraints of a budget?   Specifically on the Sales and Marketing side of engaging &#8216;everyone&#8217;.  If everyone is truly the market then maybe a roadmap to show the execution into that very broad market is necessary.  Of course you will need data to support your priority for tackling certain markets first.  Or data to prove that going after all markets is a bad idea.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: craig</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/10/engineering-vp-and-product-positioning/comment-page-1/#comment-983</link>
		<dc:creator>craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Oct 2008 06:17:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=552#comment-983</guid>
		<description>Yep. Willie has it.  Rank them.

And laugh all the way back to your cubicle at his reasons for not being able to put one foot in front of the other.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yep. Willie has it.  Rank them.</p>
<p>And laugh all the way back to your cubicle at his reasons for not being able to put one foot in front of the other.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
