I focus on getting my relationships with those two people solid first and the rest works itself out. Usually my battle with them is never on prioritizing features, it is on bug fixes vs. new functionality and new functionality vs. “architecture.”

Two cases in point. And they’re about IT guys. Granted, IT guys are like the poor relations of engineers; they don’t design technology, they just get stuck implementing it, but in my experiences with both, they have share many of the same personality traits.

#1. In my current-about-to-be-recent gig consulting at a big freakin’ company, I’ve been amazingly successful *pats back* in bringing all stakeholders together, getting consensus, and establishing a strategy – except with IT. They came around, but only after I spent at least 2-3 times as much face-time with IT managers and in engineering process workshops than with the business groups who actually have the problem being worked-on. And IT can decide to derail any non-IT-focused meeting by proclaiming that X, Y and Z are impossible. Don’t need to research it – just take their word for it. And that IT group wonders why they’re despised virtually throughout the rest of the company? No mystery why they’re getting downsized and outsourced either.

#2. My brother was in the Marines for several years. Being Marines, they’re all trained to be infantry riflemen, so even cooks and lawyers can strap on a weapon and charge a hill any time, any where. An unapologetically ballsy blood-and-guts culture through and through. Well, except for the IT guys. He was amazed that the Marines who were IT guys were like Jimmy Fallon’s “IT guy” skits on SNL – cocky, fast-talking, acronym-spewing, with at least 3 pieces of technology clipped to their belt. And they had that same “IT guy” attitude and talked to people, including senior officers, in ways that would get anyone else boot-stomped on the spot. Why do they get away with it? Because they’re the only ones who can fix the XO’s Blackberry, or can get the CO’s laptop to connect to the network on the ship you just deployed on, etc. My brother wanted to rip into these guys on multiple occasions, but hell, he needed them to get his iPaq to sync his email. So once again, different rules of engagement for the nerd herd.

In my view, we treat software engineers and IT engineers like people used to treat shamen and witch-doctors. They command powers that are a mystery to the rest of the tribe, they get to dress in their own weird outfits, they demand odd forms of tribute, and they frack-up discussions by announcing the cataclysmic consequences of ignoring their bizarre rantings.

Crops had a bad year? See – that’s what Mordok warned would happen if you didn’t spend the village’s money on a new altar to the monkey gods.

Product flailing in the market? See – that’s what Markus warned would happen if you didn’t spend half your engineering schedule on a Ruby on Rails refactoring project.

So like other commenters, I disagree with the “rational vs irrational” notion as I’ve seen the latter as the norm. I agree that it shouldn’t be, but it is. And so we are stuck offering sushi, sake-bombs, and burritos to curry favor.

That’s also why I believe so many successful software PMs have technical backgrounds. I saw on a TV show that even real-life witch-doctors don’t lay on the BS with other witch-doctors. It’s like they say:

Never sell to a salesman.

Don’t try to grift a grifter.

And don’t try to tell me you just pulled-out a demon out of that guy’s liver cuz I know the old chicken-blood-and-gizards-in-my-pocket trick too.

Ah well. Feels like Friday already…

No need to apologize for using the word “selling”. Nothing wrong with it and it is very needed skill for PMs. It’s the first Product Management Axioms that I follow.

http://onproductmanagement.net/2007/07/16/product-management-axioms/

@Geoffrey

A fellow physics grad! Great to hear that. I’ve worked in a couple of VERY rational environments, and a few VERY irrational one. It comes down to company culture and the mindset of the executives. If they permit grandstanding and egotistical behaviour from Engineering, then it’s virtually impossible to change from the bottom up.

BTW, given your background, you may like this post on Frames of Reference as applied to Product Management.

http://onproductmanagement.net/2007/07/29/frames-of-reference/

@Howard and John
It is totally about the relationship that is built with engineering. They may not like you, but they should respect you. There are some personalities though that cannot be won over because for them it is a power struggle, and giving Product Management any authority is viewed as a loss of their power. I’ve unfortunately worked with (loosely speaking) a VP Eng who was backed by an EVP of Products who pushed every good PM out of the org. This was done by promoting or hiring weak (i.e. compliant) PMs and pushing aside the stronger ones. That went on for many years until a new CEO started making changes. Several years later, I hear the problems have diminished, but are have not disappeared. The real challenge now is for PM to truly step up and deliver on what is expected of them.

Saeed

Heck, considering the scope of our communication responsibilities I see the engineering meetings as child’s play (although it has helped me that I have taken courses on 5 major development languages in order to better achieve engineer-speak).

Yes, I would say that we are faced with some difficult communication tasks. We are constantly “selling” (sorry) and evangelizing our cause and we have to do it with passion. It will be that passion that will go a long way in convincing even the staunchest of irrational audiences. If you can’t passionately get behind the goals for your product as you have come to envision them, find a new product.

Saaed, I agree with your assessment fully, but I have never worked in a “rational” environment. Every company I have been at, there has been loathing and distrust of the product management organization (they are typically part of (gasp) Marketing after all). That said, there are shades of irrational organizations, and for me that is the crux.

Since I pulled my degree in physics, and can toss around Maxwell’s equations, as well as duel with quantum mechanics, bandgap theory, etc. I usually am effective in winning the hearts of engineers. However, it is not a trivial task, and consumes a lot of my personal bandwidth.

Oh, how I would love to work in your rational environment that you describe. Maybe one day…