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	<title>Comments on: Survey: Scam or Shrewd Move? Certification for Product Managers</title>
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	<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/</link>
	<description>Product management, product marketing, and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
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		<title>By: Tony</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-3341</link>
		<dc:creator>Tony</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 31 Mar 2009 19:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-3341</guid>
		<description>Yes, Microsoft&#039;s MCSE cert is just another &#039;seal of approval&#039;, but my years taking PCs apart and getting answers via books &amp; the web paid off in spades.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, Microsoft&#8217;s MCSE cert is just another &#8216;seal of approval&#8217;, but my years taking PCs apart and getting answers via books &amp; the web paid off in spades.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-2870</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Jan 2009 09:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-2870</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m currently studying for the PDMA certification. I　ｃｈｏｓｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｓｅｅｍｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｍｏｓｔ　ｏｒｇａｎｉｚｅｄ　ａｎｄ　ｔｈｅ　ｑｕａｌｉｔｙ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅｉｒ　ｐｕｂｌｉｃａｔｉｏｎｓ　ｉｓ　ｑｕｉｔｅ　ｇｏｏｄ．

Ｉ　ｄｅｃｉｄｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｄｏ　ｉｔ　ｎｏｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｈｅ　ａｃｈｉｅｖｅｍｅｎｔ　ｏｆ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｃｅｒｔｉｆｉｅｄ，　ｂｕｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｈｅ　ｒｏａｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ｌｅａｄｓ　ｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｅｒｔｉｆｉｃａｔｉｏｎ．　Ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｈｏｕｇｈ　ｔｈｅ　ｂｏｏｋｓ，　Ｉ couldn&#039;t help to get new ideas that are helping my current projects, and I　ｔｏｏｋ　ｎｏｔｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｂｅｓｔ　ｗａｙｓ　ｔｏ　ｓｔａｒｔ　ｆｕｔｕｒｅ　ｐｒｏｊｅｃｔｓ．

Like an old Chinese proverb says: It&#039;s the journey, not the arrival that matters</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m currently studying for the PDMA certification. I　ｃｈｏｓｅ　ｔｈｅｍ　ｂｅｃａｕｓｅ　ｔｈｅｙ　ｓｅｅｍｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｂｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｍｏｓｔ　ｏｒｇａｎｉｚｅｄ　ａｎｄ　ｔｈｅ　ｑｕａｌｉｔｙ　ｏｆ　ｔｈｅｉｒ　ｐｕｂｌｉｃａｔｉｏｎｓ　ｉｓ　ｑｕｉｔｅ　ｇｏｏｄ．</p>
<p>Ｉ　ｄｅｃｉｄｅｄ　ｔｏ　ｄｏ　ｉｔ　ｎｏｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｈｅ　ａｃｈｉｅｖｅｍｅｎｔ　ｏｆ　ｂｅｉｎｇ　ｃｅｒｔｉｆｉｅｄ，　ｂｕｔ　ｆｏｒ　ｔｈｅ　ｒｏａｄ　ｔｈａｔ　ｌｅａｄｓ　ｔｏ　ｔｈｅ　ｃｅｒｔｉｆｉｃａｔｉｏｎ．　Ｇｏｉｎｇ　ｔｈｏｕｇｈ　ｔｈｅ　ｂｏｏｋｓ，　Ｉ couldn&#8217;t help to get new ideas that are helping my current projects, and I　ｔｏｏｋ　ｎｏｔｅｓ　ｏｎ　ｔｈｅ　ｂｅｓｔ　ｗａｙｓ　ｔｏ　ｓｔａｒｔ　ｆｕｔｕｒｅ　ｐｒｏｊｅｃｔｓ．</p>
<p>Like an old Chinese proverb says: It&#8217;s the journey, not the arrival that matters</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Sherman</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-2082</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Sherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:56:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-2082</guid>
		<description>Geoffrey,

Point well taken, the poorly selected correlation between the MCS(X) programs and the Pragmatic program was only to point out how varied certification programs can be. And no doubt that in the world of technology certs the Cisco medals rank in the deity status. In either case, much like your diploma on graduation day it holds no weight without some real world battle scars. 

As I said, I was more interested in identifying a PM theology that had been somewhat broadly accepted and associating myself with the many alumni that have passed through the program. I don&#039;t know that it&#039;s the best program oput there, but it one in a field that is very loosely defined. There only one, last I checked, college in the US that offers a degree program in product management. 

Nope, the 2-3 days in a nice hotel meeting room with 20 of your peers learning any &quot;best practices&quot; methodology gets you nothing in the way of experience. But it&#039;s a good thing for the rookies and a good thing for the veterans that need some continuing education now and then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoffrey,</p>
<p>Point well taken, the poorly selected correlation between the MCS(X) programs and the Pragmatic program was only to point out how varied certification programs can be. And no doubt that in the world of technology certs the Cisco medals rank in the deity status. In either case, much like your diploma on graduation day it holds no weight without some real world battle scars. </p>
<p>As I said, I was more interested in identifying a PM theology that had been somewhat broadly accepted and associating myself with the many alumni that have passed through the program. I don&#8217;t know that it&#8217;s the best program oput there, but it one in a field that is very loosely defined. There only one, last I checked, college in the US that offers a degree program in product management. </p>
<p>Nope, the 2-3 days in a nice hotel meeting room with 20 of your peers learning any &#8220;best practices&#8221; methodology gets you nothing in the way of experience. But it&#8217;s a good thing for the rookies and a good thing for the veterans that need some continuing education now and then.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-2080</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 15:05:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-2080</guid>
		<description>Bruce,

Having spent time at Cisco, and through the boom of the MCSE program, it was clear that Microsoft&#039;s certification was little more than a factory to process people through the program as quickly as possible.  The fact that one could get their MCSE without ever having actually set up a Windows system, server, domain, and merely by taking some classes, and passing some tests guaranteed that it would become little more valuable than toilet tissue.  

Cisco has a fabulous certification program, with several tiers, and each tier represents some blood, sweat and tears shed to attain.  Achieving the almighty CCIE is a feat worthy of its title.  In fact, many of the internal people working towards it spent time in their support center fielding calls from all over the world to handle network issues.

Compare that with the Pragmatic program.  They offer great classes, and valuable courseware, but the fact that one could attain certification without having spent time in the crucible of what product management is, certainly lessens the value of said certification.  I often send junior or entry level PM&#039;s to their classes (and also the 280 Group&#039;s offerings) as a way to break them into the reality of the role, but I don&#039;t believe that an engineer who took their classes is immediately going to transition into a successful product manager.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bruce,</p>
<p>Having spent time at Cisco, and through the boom of the MCSE program, it was clear that Microsoft&#8217;s certification was little more than a factory to process people through the program as quickly as possible.  The fact that one could get their MCSE without ever having actually set up a Windows system, server, domain, and merely by taking some classes, and passing some tests guaranteed that it would become little more valuable than toilet tissue.  </p>
<p>Cisco has a fabulous certification program, with several tiers, and each tier represents some blood, sweat and tears shed to attain.  Achieving the almighty CCIE is a feat worthy of its title.  In fact, many of the internal people working towards it spent time in their support center fielding calls from all over the world to handle network issues.</p>
<p>Compare that with the Pragmatic program.  They offer great classes, and valuable courseware, but the fact that one could attain certification without having spent time in the crucible of what product management is, certainly lessens the value of said certification.  I often send junior or entry level PM&#8217;s to their classes (and also the 280 Group&#8217;s offerings) as a way to break them into the reality of the role, but I don&#8217;t believe that an engineer who took their classes is immediately going to transition into a successful product manager.</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce Sherman</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-2079</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce Sherman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Dec 2008 14:40:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-2079</guid>
		<description>Oh, I am so sorry I missed this post when it first hit. I am a little late to this party but I will add my 2 cents just the same for those who straggle on in behind me. 

First things first; I am a Pragmatic Marketing Certified alumni. I paid the bucks, sat the course, took the test, passed the test, and posted my certification on my LinkedIn account like a badge of honor. Why? Not for more money, not for job security, and not for bragging rights. I did it to belong to the brethren. To tie myself to a group of people who want to adopt a methodology that makes as much sense as anything else out there. After all, you have to believe in something or you&#039;ll fall for anything. 

My education efforts with the Pragmatic group has definitely made a difference in my career search. Their efforts to promote themselves have been responsible for helping me land my last two jobs. That&#039;s not to say my resume didn&#039;t speak for itself, but in each case the hiring manager recognized the Pragmatic brand name and this was essential in getting my resume to the &quot;in&quot; pile. 

Now it doesn&#039;t always work that way, you can ask any one of the umpteen million people who became Microsoft &quot;certified&quot; (MSCE). This was a certification program that became too successful. So much so that almost overnight the famed card carrying members of the Microsoft guru wannabe&#039;s became, ... irrelevant. So, the law of diminishing returns does apply. 

So I would suggest you pick a team, take their course, learn something, and more importantly just add yourself to the club. Because until you do, I look more dedicated to my profession than you do..... nothing personal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, I am so sorry I missed this post when it first hit. I am a little late to this party but I will add my 2 cents just the same for those who straggle on in behind me. </p>
<p>First things first; I am a Pragmatic Marketing Certified alumni. I paid the bucks, sat the course, took the test, passed the test, and posted my certification on my LinkedIn account like a badge of honor. Why? Not for more money, not for job security, and not for bragging rights. I did it to belong to the brethren. To tie myself to a group of people who want to adopt a methodology that makes as much sense as anything else out there. After all, you have to believe in something or you&#8217;ll fall for anything. </p>
<p>My education efforts with the Pragmatic group has definitely made a difference in my career search. Their efforts to promote themselves have been responsible for helping me land my last two jobs. That&#8217;s not to say my resume didn&#8217;t speak for itself, but in each case the hiring manager recognized the Pragmatic brand name and this was essential in getting my resume to the &#8220;in&#8221; pile. </p>
<p>Now it doesn&#8217;t always work that way, you can ask any one of the umpteen million people who became Microsoft &#8220;certified&#8221; (MSCE). This was a certification program that became too successful. So much so that almost overnight the famed card carrying members of the Microsoft guru wannabe&#8217;s became, &#8230; irrelevant. So, the law of diminishing returns does apply. </p>
<p>So I would suggest you pick a team, take their course, learn something, and more importantly just add yourself to the club. Because until you do, I look more dedicated to my profession than you do&#8230;.. nothing personal.</p>
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		<title>By: Who Me? Biased? (More on Product Management Certification) &#124; The Cranky Product Manager</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1780</link>
		<dc:creator>Who Me? Biased? (More on Product Management Certification) &#124; The Cranky Product Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Dec 2008 18:17:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-1780</guid>
		<description>[...] that Survey on Product Management Certification (results here)? And how the Cranky Product Manager warned the certification training vendors NOT [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] that Survey on Product Management Certification (results here)? And how the Cranky Product Manager warned the certification training vendors NOT [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PM Certification Survey Closes 12/19 midnight &#124; The Cranky Product Manager</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1660</link>
		<dc:creator>PM Certification Survey Closes 12/19 midnight &#124; The Cranky Product Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Dec 2008 08:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-1660</guid>
		<description>[...] the Cranky Product Manager&#8217;s survey on product management and product marketing certification ends on 12/19/2009 at [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the Cranky Product Manager&#8217;s survey on product management and product marketing certification ends on 12/19/2009 at [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jesse Smith</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1645</link>
		<dc:creator>Jesse Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Dec 2008 03:03:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-1645</guid>
		<description>I remember an article by Tom DeMarco (writing about certification of software developers) where he wrote &quot;it has always been a big hit among those who get to do the certifying.&quot; I share that view - the ones who benefit the most from certifying are the ones granting the certification, a) by creating jobs for themselves and b) by getting the power to decide who gets to be certified and which methods and processes are &quot;blessed&quot; and sanctioned.

At least in the software field, I&#039;ve yet to see a certificate that really gave me any useful, trustworthy information about a candidate that I couldn&#039;t get from an interview.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember an article by Tom DeMarco (writing about certification of software developers) where he wrote &#8220;it has always been a big hit among those who get to do the certifying.&#8221; I share that view &#8211; the ones who benefit the most from certifying are the ones granting the certification, a) by creating jobs for themselves and b) by getting the power to decide who gets to be certified and which methods and processes are &#8220;blessed&#8221; and sanctioned.</p>
<p>At least in the software field, I&#8217;ve yet to see a certificate that really gave me any useful, trustworthy information about a candidate that I couldn&#8217;t get from an interview.</p>
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		<title>By: The value of PM certification &#171; On Product Management</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1634</link>
		<dc:creator>The value of PM certification &#171; On Product Management</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 18:33:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-1634</guid>
		<description>[...] of being certified as a Product Manager by any of the various orgs that give these tests. Click here to jump to her post and fill out the survey she has set [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of being certified as a Product Manager by any of the various orgs that give these tests. Click here to jump to her post and fill out the survey she has set [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blackblot - Product Management Expertise™</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2008/12/quickie-survey-certification-product-managers-product-marketers/comment-page-1/#comment-1632</link>
		<dc:creator>Blackblot - Product Management Expertise™</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 09:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=810#comment-1632</guid>
		<description>The survey did not mention the &lt;i&gt;&quot;Blackblot Product Management Professional™&quot;&lt;/i&gt; (BPMP) certification program.  For more information, please see http://www.blackblot.com/certification.shtml .
  
Thanks and Best Regards,
Blackblot - Product Management Expertise™
www.blackblot.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The survey did not mention the <i>&#8220;Blackblot Product Management Professional™&#8221;</i> (BPMP) certification program.  For more information, please see <a href="http://www.blackblot.com/certification.shtml" rel="nofollow">http://www.blackblot.com/certification.shtml</a> .</p>
<p>Thanks and Best Regards,<br />
Blackblot &#8211; Product Management Expertise™<br />
<a href="http://www.blackblot.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.blackblot.com</a><br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
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