After that big lecture, would you be SHOCKED to learn the CPM was indeed once a SalesDroid?

It is on that basis that the CPM disagrees with you. That plus having run product management for lots of years. Bottom line is there is no excuse whatsoever for the disrespect that Droids give PMs during these presos. None – sorry.

Of course, it’s usually the BAD Droids that engage in the disrespectful behavior (do you think PMs are the only ones they disrespect and that they don’t ultimately treat customers similarly?). The good Droids have enough of an understanding of basic manners, reciprocity in human relationships, and an inkling that they might need help from PM down the road.

Anyway, gotta say, the CPM finds this thread annoying because, well, just about everything. First, a LOT of PMs came from Sales – so your “fundamentally different” argument is really hard to swallow. And, no, PMs are not there to entertain or to just “mill about” with the Sales People. The CPM once proposed her team just attend but not give training — that didn’t fly at all. They are indeed there to train people.

I only continue this thread because I believe that it’s a key point that most PM’s don’t understand – and it’s critical to our success!

So here it goes: your grumbling (although well worded) is missing the point. The sales beast is different from the engineer beast and the two will NEVER understand each other. However, we can work together.

This was all explained wonderfully during an episode of WKRP in Cincinnati when the sleazy salesman, Herb, got sick and the station manger, Andy, had to try to do his job. Andy blew it because he didn’t understand that sales is all about relations and Herb had to straighten things out when he got out of the hospital.

The reason that the CPM was REALLY invited to the sales kickoff was not for your stage time. The presentations are just background noise. When I do these presentations I try to ENTERTAIN, not EDUCATE. That’s how I’m going to get the sales teams interested in selling my product. The real reason that you were invited was for the “milling about” time in which you could meet and greet the sales people. This is how the relationship gets started. It’s how they know who to call when they have a questions – you are no longer just a name in the corporate directory, you have a face and your kid has a name (yes, they do remember things like this – it’s their job).

Oh, and FYI – generally all sales folks go to the sales kickoff meeting but only a few get to go to the President’s Club meeting at the end of the year. It’s a prize – these folks respond very well to prizes because they are competitive by nature. Everybody who was on your high school’s football team is probably in sales these days.

Sorry in advance about this next bit: the CPM gets a guaranteed paycheck every two weeks or so. That’s why you don’t have to be fired up. A salesperson generally gets maybe $25,000 base (he/she can count on getting this) and the rest is commission based. They NEED to be fired up. Just like you see a coach get a sports team fired up in a locker room before the start of the game or during half time, this is actually really important.

So there you go. Sales people are NOT like engineers / PMs. They actually have a rough job. However, they’ve been bred for it and they love it. We get confused when we see the best parts (kick off, President’s club) and we don’t see the constant travel, hotel rooms, firings, rejections, losses, etc.

Ok, I think I’ve hit my 500 word limit. I need to go prepare for my next sales kickoff meeting…

- Dr. Jim Anderson
The Accidental PM Blog
“Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager”

Hmm. Didn’t see “sales is lonely” brought out as the main point of the post, or even the sub-text. Maybe as the sub-sub-sub-text.

Anyway, if the main purpose of Kickoff is just to get liquored up and psyched up, why not let the PM stay at home with her kid, or maybe use that time to visit some customers instead? In fact, why schedule any presentations or training of any kind at Kickoff?

Wait, isn’t there a venue that truly IS just for sales and is for the sole purpose of helping motivate the SalesDroids? YEP there is. It’s called THE PRESIDENT’S CLUB or whatever. You know, that lavish trip to St. Barts with all the senior execs and every Droid/SE that even sorta-kinda-almost hit their number.

Oh, and the Cranky Product Manager could stand for someone trying to fire HER up for a change. Seriously, all she ever hears is everyone’s bitching. She never gets any training herself, never gets any frakin’ awards or trips . Basically, she gets to GIVE GIVE GIVE all the time and never ever gets to TAKE. Sales Droids, they are TAKERS.

Us on the PM side just don’t understand it: we work with teams of developers, Q/A folks, marketers, etc. Sales folks basically work alone and either succeed or get fired every quarter. Sales kick offs are not about product training (like Jeff Huth pointed out), but are rather “recharging” events to get the lonely sales folks fired up before they get sent out again. They’ll discharge over time, but that’s what next year’s sales kick off meeting (booze and all) is designed to take care of.

So give ‘em a break, walk a mile in their shoes, etc. Ultimately it takes all sorts of cranky folks to make a product be successful…!

- Dr. Jim Anderson
The Accidental PM Blog
“Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager”

I assume that the CSE is talking about any customer reference and feedback. Included would be references of companies involved in beta-testing the new product as well as specific feedback, benefits and comments about all the life-changing features of said new product.
Details that go beyond the quotes in the PR would I’m sure be helpful.

I do realize though that the CSE will never be satisfied and will always ask for more

Great thread of posts, by the way!