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	<title>Comments on: Help Your Fellow Product Managers / Product Marketers Find Jobs</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/</link>
	<description>Product management, product marketing, and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
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		<title>By: Ray Salemi</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3395</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray Salemi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 10:35:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3395</guid>
		<description>Here is a job opening at the microloaners at Kiva:

http://tinyurl.com/cdea7y</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a job opening at the microloaners at Kiva:</p>
<p><a href="http://tinyurl.com/cdea7y" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cdea7y</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ryan Smith</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3393</link>
		<dc:creator>Ryan Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Apr 2009 02:44:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3393</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m a fan of a new site called StartUpHire - http://www.startuphire.com    They list over 200 product manager jobs at venture backed companies.   I personally have a bias to smaller companies and enjoy the rapid pace and sense of accomplishment.  I&#039;ve had good luck thus far with teeing up interviews.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m a fan of a new site called StartUpHire &#8211; <a href="http://www.startuphire.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.startuphire.com</a>    They list over 200 product manager jobs at venture backed companies.   I personally have a bias to smaller companies and enjoy the rapid pace and sense of accomplishment.  I&#8217;ve had good luck thus far with teeing up interviews.</p>
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		<title>By: Don MacLennan</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3118</link>
		<dc:creator>Don MacLennan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 15:48:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3118</guid>
		<description>@ Norton, excellent post.  What I admire is that you put your ego aside and found a practical way to stay in the game.  I&#039;m not sure I could do the same if presented with similar circumstances, but will remember your experience if so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Norton, excellent post.  What I admire is that you put your ego aside and found a practical way to stay in the game.  I&#8217;m not sure I could do the same if presented with similar circumstances, but will remember your experience if so.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3116</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 08:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3116</guid>
		<description>I think in the UK it&#039;s probably a blend of:

Find a really, really pro-active recruiter. I found one a couple of years ago at ABRS. But, this is more about luck than anything else.

Dare I say it, Monster is great as you sit back and get calls on introductions to head-hunter types..(but there is a lot of chaff.)

I&#039;d say Linked-In has become massively useful over the last 6 months, as more and more people use it as a serious way to find people.

Anyone who doesn&#039;t have a job at the mo - good luck!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think in the UK it&#8217;s probably a blend of:</p>
<p>Find a really, really pro-active recruiter. I found one a couple of years ago at ABRS. But, this is more about luck than anything else.</p>
<p>Dare I say it, Monster is great as you sit back and get calls on introductions to head-hunter types..(but there is a lot of chaff.)</p>
<p>I&#8217;d say Linked-In has become massively useful over the last 6 months, as more and more people use it as a serious way to find people.</p>
<p>Anyone who doesn&#8217;t have a job at the mo &#8211; good luck!</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Rogers</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-4565</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Mar 2009 05:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-4565</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Help Your Fellow Product Managers / Product Marketers Find Jobs  http://is.gd/lmuo (a @crankypm post)&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Help Your Fellow Product Managers / Product Marketers Find Jobs  <a href="http://is.gd/lmuo" rel="nofollow">http://is.gd/lmuo</a> (a @crankypm post)</span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Graham Gillen</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3113</link>
		<dc:creator>Graham Gillen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 18:27:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3113</guid>
		<description>Headhunters also have their role.

Wait let me take that back.... I use the term headhunters for unsolicited, off-target cold calls from recruiters who used to print money when things were good.

My opinion changed when I got my last job through a recruiter who really was like a sports &quot;agent&quot;.  He coached me through the whole process and was a joy to work with.

So if looking in the Washington DC area, I highly recommend Ryan Keller at JR Associates (boutique firm) - http://www.jrassociates.com/

P.S. no kickbacks were given for this endorsement - not even a $5 *$$$ card (that&#039;s Starbucks for all you SMS junkies).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Headhunters also have their role.</p>
<p>Wait let me take that back&#8230;. I use the term headhunters for unsolicited, off-target cold calls from recruiters who used to print money when things were good.</p>
<p>My opinion changed when I got my last job through a recruiter who really was like a sports &#8220;agent&#8221;.  He coached me through the whole process and was a joy to work with.</p>
<p>So if looking in the Washington DC area, I highly recommend Ryan Keller at JR Associates (boutique firm) &#8211; <a href="http://www.jrassociates.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.jrassociates.com/</a></p>
<p>P.S. no kickbacks were given for this endorsement &#8211; not even a $5 *$$$ card (that&#8217;s Starbucks for all you SMS junkies).</p>
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		<title>By: Norton</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3112</link>
		<dc:creator>Norton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Mar 2009 15:49:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3112</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve been laid off twice, and followed the same recipe both times.  I can&#039;t guarantee it&#039;s not coincidence, but I&#039;m pretty satisfied that it works for me, and it might for you too.

Most recently, I was part of a downsizing in October that completely eliminated the product marketing department of the company I had been with for 4 years.  I think they did the right thing - they realized the only way through the crisis is to sell what they have, with minimal continuing engineering.   Once things turn around, they can ramp up for the future again, assuming there is a future remaining for them.   

This week I received an offer to start as product marketing manager at a company that recently received their B-round of funding and is in growth mode.  Here&#039;s what has worked for me: 

- Find a small company or companies that need PM work but can&#039;t afford to hire.    Both times I&#039;ve done this through my network contacts.   Be flexible - let their business priorities guide your contribution, and don&#039;t be afraid to stretch into new areas - this time around I ended up learning a lot about CPC advertising and SEO,  made a great contribution, and learned a valuable new set of skills.  
- Start very cheap, or free, and establish your value.  Over a short amount of time, you can use the power of reciprocity to negotiate an increase.   Both times I&#039;ve done this, I&#039;ve been able to grow my income from a very low starting point to about an $80k/year run rate, which is about half my target compensation, but WAY better than what unemployment pays, and sufficient to keep the bill collectors at bay.  
- Once you land this &quot;tweener&quot; position, don&#039;t think of yourself as unemployed,  or even underemployed.  You&#039;re making a great contribution, you&#039;re still growing, and you&#039;re able to pay your bills.  Now be patient, be positive, and let your network work for you.   
- Dig in and work hard, and eventually an opportunity will present itself.   In my case, both times this came in the form of unpublished positions - the hiring team contacted people in their network looking for good talent, and I got referred into the jobs by previous bosses. 

In the first case, my in-between time was about 11 months.  This time it was 4.    In both cases I enjoyed the work very much, met great new people, and grew my skillset.  In both cases, I would have enjoyed continuing the work indefinitely, but had to give it up for &quot;an offer I couldn&#039;t refuse&quot;.   

I hope this helps. 

Norton

PS - despite trying pretty hard, I&#039;ve never gotten a callback or interview from Monster, the Ladders, Careers.com etc. etc.   My resume and cover letter skills apparently stink, or these services just don&#039;t work.   They are not part of my strategy at all anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been laid off twice, and followed the same recipe both times.  I can&#8217;t guarantee it&#8217;s not coincidence, but I&#8217;m pretty satisfied that it works for me, and it might for you too.</p>
<p>Most recently, I was part of a downsizing in October that completely eliminated the product marketing department of the company I had been with for 4 years.  I think they did the right thing &#8211; they realized the only way through the crisis is to sell what they have, with minimal continuing engineering.   Once things turn around, they can ramp up for the future again, assuming there is a future remaining for them.   </p>
<p>This week I received an offer to start as product marketing manager at a company that recently received their B-round of funding and is in growth mode.  Here&#8217;s what has worked for me: </p>
<p>- Find a small company or companies that need PM work but can&#8217;t afford to hire.    Both times I&#8217;ve done this through my network contacts.   Be flexible &#8211; let their business priorities guide your contribution, and don&#8217;t be afraid to stretch into new areas &#8211; this time around I ended up learning a lot about CPC advertising and SEO,  made a great contribution, and learned a valuable new set of skills.<br />
- Start very cheap, or free, and establish your value.  Over a short amount of time, you can use the power of reciprocity to negotiate an increase.   Both times I&#8217;ve done this, I&#8217;ve been able to grow my income from a very low starting point to about an $80k/year run rate, which is about half my target compensation, but WAY better than what unemployment pays, and sufficient to keep the bill collectors at bay.<br />
- Once you land this &#8220;tweener&#8221; position, don&#8217;t think of yourself as unemployed,  or even underemployed.  You&#8217;re making a great contribution, you&#8217;re still growing, and you&#8217;re able to pay your bills.  Now be patient, be positive, and let your network work for you.<br />
- Dig in and work hard, and eventually an opportunity will present itself.   In my case, both times this came in the form of unpublished positions &#8211; the hiring team contacted people in their network looking for good talent, and I got referred into the jobs by previous bosses. </p>
<p>In the first case, my in-between time was about 11 months.  This time it was 4.    In both cases I enjoyed the work very much, met great new people, and grew my skillset.  In both cases, I would have enjoyed continuing the work indefinitely, but had to give it up for &#8220;an offer I couldn&#8217;t refuse&#8221;.   </p>
<p>I hope this helps. </p>
<p>Norton</p>
<p>PS &#8211; despite trying pretty hard, I&#8217;ve never gotten a callback or interview from Monster, the Ladders, Careers.com etc. etc.   My resume and cover letter skills apparently stink, or these services just don&#8217;t work.   They are not part of my strategy at all anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jim Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3103</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jim Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 21:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3103</guid>
		<description>Oh hey, just found another site that might be of interest. Standard disclaimer: one-on-one networking with real people is always better than typing on a keyboard. However, that being said, over at Alltop they&#039;ve got a nice job positing page that might be worth a checkout. It&#039;s located at: &lt;a href=&quot;http://jobs.alltop.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://jobs.alltop.com/&lt;/a&gt;.

Of the listed product manger jobs, my favorite would be the one at the Hawaii Science &amp; Technology Council...!


- Dr. Jim Anderson
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.TheAccidentalPM.com/&quot; title=&quot;The Accidental Product Manager Blog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Accidental PM Blog&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh hey, just found another site that might be of interest. Standard disclaimer: one-on-one networking with real people is always better than typing on a keyboard. However, that being said, over at Alltop they&#8217;ve got a nice job positing page that might be worth a checkout. It&#8217;s located at: <a href="http://jobs.alltop.com/" rel="nofollow">http://jobs.alltop.com/</a>.</p>
<p>Of the listed product manger jobs, my favorite would be the one at the Hawaii Science &amp; Technology Council&#8230;!</p>
<p>- Dr. Jim Anderson<br />
<a href="http://www.TheAccidentalPM.com/" title="The Accidental Product Manager Blog" rel="nofollow">The Accidental PM Blog</a><br />
&#8220;Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Jim Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3100</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Jim Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Mar 2009 18:42:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3100</guid>
		<description>Good set of resources. One more for the pile: The Ladders bills itself as 
having exclusively $100K+ jobs. It is a site that you pay to participate in (I have no relationship with it), but I&#039;ve had some friends who used it successfully. The link for the site is: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.theladders.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;www.theladders.com&lt;/a&gt;.


- Dr. Jim Anderson
&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.TheAccidentalPM.com/&quot; title=&quot;The Accidental Product Manager Blog&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Accidental PM Blog&lt;/a&gt;
&quot;Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good set of resources. One more for the pile: The Ladders bills itself as<br />
having exclusively $100K+ jobs. It is a site that you pay to participate in (I have no relationship with it), but I&#8217;ve had some friends who used it successfully. The link for the site is: <a href="http://www.theladders.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.theladders.com</a>.</p>
<p>- Dr. Jim Anderson<br />
<a href="http://www.TheAccidentalPM.com/" title="The Accidental Product Manager Blog" rel="nofollow">The Accidental PM Blog</a><br />
&#8220;Home Of The Billion Dollar Product Manager&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Blog: The Cranky Product Manager &#124; Bscopes Feeds</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/comment-page-1/#comment-3097</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog: The Cranky Product Manager &#124; Bscopes Feeds</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Mar 2009 19:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1175#comment-3097</guid>
		<description>[...] Blog: The Cranky Product Manager tagged with: none  Post: http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/ [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Blog: The Cranky Product Manager tagged with: none  Post: <a href="http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/" rel="nofollow">http://crankypm.com/2009/02/fellow-product-managers-product-marketers-find-jobs/</a> [...]</p>
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