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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: A Short Guide to Being an Unemployed Product Manager &#8211; Part One</title>
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	<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/</link>
	<description>Product management and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
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		<title>By: Paco</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3028</link>
		<dc:creator>Paco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 19:47:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3028</guid>
		<description>Scott - The CPM just posted Part Two which I think you will very much find to your liking.  In short, you and I are twins separated at birth :)

Not identical twins, mind you, but we&#039;re definitely on the same mental wavelength regarding careers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott &#8211; The CPM just posted Part Two which I think you will very much find to your liking.  In short, you and I are twins separated at birth :)</p>
<p>Not identical twins, mind you, but we&#8217;re definitely on the same mental wavelength regarding careers.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Sehlhorst</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3026</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Sehlhorst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 17:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3026</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Paco!  Really enjoyed this, and looking forward to the rest of the series.  FWIW, I was laid off as part of the dot-bomb too.  Five days later, I started Tyner Blain, and haven&#039;t looked back since.  As folks have pointed out, companies often don&#039;t know that they &quot;need&quot; product management help.  As a result, several of my contracts since then have been in business architecture / business analysis roles.  On most of those projects, I&#039;ve been able to infuse product management learning (for me), skills, concepts, and best practices into those engagements.

Extending Justin&#039;s metaphor...
When you&#039;re far underwater, you may identify the &quot;requirement&quot; to have better gauges that can handle the higher water pressure.  But you aren&#039;t going to ask a technician to replace the gauges until the next time you dock the sub.  And some companies will never make it back to the berth.

Companies need cash flow to survive.  When cash flow is at risk, strategic investments for the future will be reduced if not deferred.  That translates into (temporarily) reduced opportunities to &quot;be strategic&quot; for our employers and clients.  From what I see, that also translates into increased demand on the tactical side of things.

I&#039;m working with one client where my focus has shifted from farther-out &quot;define the problem&quot; type work to closer-in requirements work specifically focused on generating cash flow asap.  This still leverages product management skills significantly - &quot;do this now&quot; &quot;don&#039;t do that until later.&quot;  All viewed through the lens of cash flow.  Do some of my daily activities look like project management or scrum management?  Sure.  Am I still continuing to improve my product management chops?  Definitely.

As to the suggestion about doing project management work, I agree with the premise, but personally find business analysis work to be both more rewarding and better aligned with my &quot;true calling.&quot;  Others may reach different conclusions for the same reasons, but if you want to stay closer to product management, consider finding temporary business analysis roles ahead of project management ones.

Thanks again Paco for the great article, CPM for hosting, and everyone for the great discussion!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Paco!  Really enjoyed this, and looking forward to the rest of the series.  FWIW, I was laid off as part of the dot-bomb too.  Five days later, I started Tyner Blain, and haven&#8217;t looked back since.  As folks have pointed out, companies often don&#8217;t know that they &#8220;need&#8221; product management help.  As a result, several of my contracts since then have been in business architecture / business analysis roles.  On most of those projects, I&#8217;ve been able to infuse product management learning (for me), skills, concepts, and best practices into those engagements.</p>
<p>Extending Justin&#8217;s metaphor&#8230;<br />
When you&#8217;re far underwater, you may identify the &#8220;requirement&#8221; to have better gauges that can handle the higher water pressure.  But you aren&#8217;t going to ask a technician to replace the gauges until the next time you dock the sub.  And some companies will never make it back to the berth.</p>
<p>Companies need cash flow to survive.  When cash flow is at risk, strategic investments for the future will be reduced if not deferred.  That translates into (temporarily) reduced opportunities to &#8220;be strategic&#8221; for our employers and clients.  From what I see, that also translates into increased demand on the tactical side of things.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m working with one client where my focus has shifted from farther-out &#8220;define the problem&#8221; type work to closer-in requirements work specifically focused on generating cash flow asap.  This still leverages product management skills significantly &#8211; &#8220;do this now&#8221; &#8220;don&#8217;t do that until later.&#8221;  All viewed through the lens of cash flow.  Do some of my daily activities look like project management or scrum management?  Sure.  Am I still continuing to improve my product management chops?  Definitely.</p>
<p>As to the suggestion about doing project management work, I agree with the premise, but personally find business analysis work to be both more rewarding and better aligned with my &#8220;true calling.&#8221;  Others may reach different conclusions for the same reasons, but if you want to stay closer to product management, consider finding temporary business analysis roles ahead of project management ones.</p>
<p>Thanks again Paco for the great article, CPM for hosting, and everyone for the great discussion!</p>
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		<title>By: Paco</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3022</link>
		<dc:creator>Paco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 15:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3022</guid>
		<description>Maggie - Mucho props for bringing up volunteer work.  As unemployment drags on, it feels good to get out and do something that clearly has value, even if it doesn&#039;t produce a paycheck.  

Justin - You also get a large dollop of props (sorry - I&#039;ve got some sour cream next to me on the table) for mentioning Das Boot.  I LUV that movie and I&#039;m gonna Netflix it asap.  After all, got a little free time to kill.  And I agree with your analogy - sometimes a depth charge comes out of nowhere.  In my case, one of our flagship products lost a patent infringement lawsuit and we were being sued to place an injunction on future sales and to pay damages for prior sales.  Totally didn&#039;t see that one coming.

But really, folks, if the company didn&#039;t let go of 100% of the employees, you gotta think about how to be on the &quot;good&quot; side of the cut.  I don&#039;t mean you should take on a victim-mentality, but there could be some benefit to thinking about it while you&#039;re still employed.  

BillG - I hear you about the &gt;10 yrs experience part.  I&#039;m just over that threshold, and I still look young, so it hasn&#039;t hurt me much.  But I did have an interview last week where the person asked me if I have any project management experience, specifically with MS Project.  I said &quot;yes&quot;, and then she asked me the last time I used Project.  I thought about it and answered, &quot;It was probably in 2000 or 2001.&quot;  And then it hit me - cripes, that&#039;s 8-9 years ago!  I don&#039;t think she was impressed :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maggie &#8211; Mucho props for bringing up volunteer work.  As unemployment drags on, it feels good to get out and do something that clearly has value, even if it doesn&#8217;t produce a paycheck.  </p>
<p>Justin &#8211; You also get a large dollop of props (sorry &#8211; I&#8217;ve got some sour cream next to me on the table) for mentioning Das Boot.  I LUV that movie and I&#8217;m gonna Netflix it asap.  After all, got a little free time to kill.  And I agree with your analogy &#8211; sometimes a depth charge comes out of nowhere.  In my case, one of our flagship products lost a patent infringement lawsuit and we were being sued to place an injunction on future sales and to pay damages for prior sales.  Totally didn&#8217;t see that one coming.</p>
<p>But really, folks, if the company didn&#8217;t let go of 100% of the employees, you gotta think about how to be on the &#8220;good&#8221; side of the cut.  I don&#8217;t mean you should take on a victim-mentality, but there could be some benefit to thinking about it while you&#8217;re still employed.  </p>
<p>BillG &#8211; I hear you about the &gt;10 yrs experience part.  I&#8217;m just over that threshold, and I still look young, so it hasn&#8217;t hurt me much.  But I did have an interview last week where the person asked me if I have any project management experience, specifically with MS Project.  I said &#8220;yes&#8221;, and then she asked me the last time I used Project.  I thought about it and answered, &#8220;It was probably in 2000 or 2001.&#8221;  And then it hit me &#8211; cripes, that&#8217;s 8-9 years ago!  I don&#8217;t think she was impressed :P</p>
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		<title>By: BillG</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3021</link>
		<dc:creator>BillG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 14:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3021</guid>
		<description>One thing that&#039;s become abundantly clear to me is Mr. Locke&#039;s comment on agism and prior experience. It appears that 5-10 is good, 15+ is now bad. Unfortunately, going back into coding and project management is what I wanted but I didn&#039;t have enough recent experience although I have a strong technical background. 

I recommend you only show the last 10 years or so of experience on your resume and make no mention of &quot;20 years of experience in blah, blah&quot; in your summary or cover letter.

Paco - keep up the good work. As for the comments re. &quot;you didn&#039;t provide enough value&quot;, pleeeease! Every company is different and many PMs have so little control over product content, direction and strategy that&#039;s unrealistic to think that they can make themselves indispensable by some super PM mojo. You can get laid off merely because of a personality clash or from a corporate indifference or outright disrespect for marketing and PM.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing that&#8217;s become abundantly clear to me is Mr. Locke&#8217;s comment on agism and prior experience. It appears that 5-10 is good, 15+ is now bad. Unfortunately, going back into coding and project management is what I wanted but I didn&#8217;t have enough recent experience although I have a strong technical background. </p>
<p>I recommend you only show the last 10 years or so of experience on your resume and make no mention of &#8220;20 years of experience in blah, blah&#8221; in your summary or cover letter.</p>
<p>Paco &#8211; keep up the good work. As for the comments re. &#8220;you didn&#8217;t provide enough value&#8221;, pleeeease! Every company is different and many PMs have so little control over product content, direction and strategy that&#8217;s unrealistic to think that they can make themselves indispensable by some super PM mojo. You can get laid off merely because of a personality clash or from a corporate indifference or outright disrespect for marketing and PM.</p>
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		<title>By: Justin Burrows</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3020</link>
		<dc:creator>Justin Burrows</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 07:21:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3020</guid>
		<description>Remember that scene from Das Boot (or any submarine movie, for that matter)? The one where they&#039;re in much deeper than the sub is speced for? The one where the gauges are cracking, the bow is creaking and everybody is really sweaty and nervous-looking, and the craggily faced captain who was also in Dune scratches his beard and his eyes are locked in laser-focused thought? You know what&#039;s going on in his mind?

Well, he I&#039;ll tell you what he is NOT thinking -- he is NOT internalizing about how it all points back to him. Sometimes you got to go through the Strait of Gibraltar, and sometimes it wasn&#039;t your big idea to do so, it just happens. Thinking about how the mess of depth-charging destroyers above you raining hell is your fault and somehow could have been within your control doesn&#039;t help (or really make much sense unless you &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;are selling something&lt;/a&gt;).

Thing is, economic decisions are &lt;em&gt;generally&lt;/em&gt; rational, but on a decision-by-decision basis it&#039;s merely a tendency and hardly a rule. And when the bow&#039;s a creakin&#039; and gauge&#039;s a crackin&#039;... well &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/opinion/13brooks.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;irrationality is the rule&lt;/a&gt;. 

Paco, I think you&#039;re right on about making some rain. I&#039;ve been surprised at how positive managers can be if your name is associated with the specific deals and specific dollars. When the axe is in hand, managers have a hard time cutting a person they associate with half their pipeline, no matter what the freshly-pressed excel spreadsheet with conditional formatting says. A bag of dollars beats a bushel of value every day of the week (plus matinee on Sunday) when times are tight.

Ultimately, we are not in a submarine. So, you know, we&#039;ve got that going for us...

Super looking forward to the next installments. ^_^</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Remember that scene from Das Boot (or any submarine movie, for that matter)? The one where they&#8217;re in much deeper than the sub is speced for? The one where the gauges are cracking, the bow is creaking and everybody is really sweaty and nervous-looking, and the craggily faced captain who was also in Dune scratches his beard and his eyes are locked in laser-focused thought? You know what&#8217;s going on in his mind?</p>
<p>Well, he I&#8217;ll tell you what he is NOT thinking &#8212; he is NOT internalizing about how it all points back to him. Sometimes you got to go through the Strait of Gibraltar, and sometimes it wasn&#8217;t your big idea to do so, it just happens. Thinking about how the mess of depth-charging destroyers above you raining hell is your fault and somehow could have been within your control doesn&#8217;t help (or really make much sense unless you <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fear,_uncertainty_and_doubt" rel="nofollow">are selling something</a>).</p>
<p>Thing is, economic decisions are <em>generally</em> rational, but on a decision-by-decision basis it&#8217;s merely a tendency and hardly a rule. And when the bow&#8217;s a creakin&#8217; and gauge&#8217;s a crackin&#8217;&#8230; well <a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/13/opinion/13brooks.html" rel="nofollow">irrationality is the rule</a>. </p>
<p>Paco, I think you&#8217;re right on about making some rain. I&#8217;ve been surprised at how positive managers can be if your name is associated with the specific deals and specific dollars. When the axe is in hand, managers have a hard time cutting a person they associate with half their pipeline, no matter what the freshly-pressed excel spreadsheet with conditional formatting says. A bag of dollars beats a bushel of value every day of the week (plus matinee on Sunday) when times are tight.</p>
<p>Ultimately, we are not in a submarine. So, you know, we&#8217;ve got that going for us&#8230;</p>
<p>Super looking forward to the next installments. ^_^</p>
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		<title>By: Paco</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3019</link>
		<dc:creator>Paco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 04:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3019</guid>
		<description>David, you&#039;re going to hate part 2 :)

And come on - turn down contract work and start a business instead?  &lt;b&gt;Are you high? &lt;/b&gt;

A) Good luck getting a SB loan in this climate unless you&#039;re an Inuit woman war veteran.
B) Good luck finding venture capital when the VCs are the same guys telling all the CEOs in their portfolio to keep doing lay-offs.
C) I guess I could use my 401k to start a business.  Or I suppose I could get a second mortgage on my house.  Oh, but wait...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you&#8217;re going to hate part 2 :)</p>
<p>And come on &#8211; turn down contract work and start a business instead?  <b>Are you high? </b></p>
<p>A) Good luck getting a SB loan in this climate unless you&#8217;re an Inuit woman war veteran.<br />
B) Good luck finding venture capital when the VCs are the same guys telling all the CEOs in their portfolio to keep doing lay-offs.<br />
C) I guess I could use my 401k to start a business.  Or I suppose I could get a second mortgage on my house.  Oh, but wait&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3018</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 03:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3018</guid>
		<description>The folks that got laid off back in the dot boom did not come back! It takes eight years to get back. 

If you never want to be laidoff again, start your own business. You are a product. You have a roadmap even if you haven&#039;t drawn it up yet. Someone else might draw it up for you. You are the product of your new business. 

Don&#039;t do contracts. Your pay will suffer and your resume will keep you out of full time jobs. Spare yourself. 

It turns out that every ordinary, non-tech, commodity selling business now need product managers. They don&#039;t know it. They don&#039;t know that they need a new vector of differentiation. They don&#039;t know that they need recession tactics, the very ones we turned to during the dot bust. You can help them. It won&#039;t be about capturing requirements or listening to the customer. You&#039;ll have to innovate, mostly in the discontinuous and radical vein. They don&#039;t know that either. But, that&#039;s your product. That&#039;s what you can sell. Continous is broken. 

Going back to school might make sense right now as well. But, don&#039;t think in terms of getting an MBA. Think about getting as far away from tech as you can. Agism and prior management experience is baggage, not an asset. 

Then, there is dropping back to project management, or even coding. 

Get another job fast. Full-time only. Get out of the house and do that old fashioned F2F social networking. It should be pretty obvious that you haven&#039;t been doing that, otherwise, you would have already called your next employer and dropped your box off at your new cubicle. Too much listening to customers can do that to a PM. 

At the end of each day, look hard for things to appreciate. Express your gratitude for those things. 

Someone posted on China needing PMs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The folks that got laid off back in the dot boom did not come back! It takes eight years to get back. </p>
<p>If you never want to be laidoff again, start your own business. You are a product. You have a roadmap even if you haven&#8217;t drawn it up yet. Someone else might draw it up for you. You are the product of your new business. </p>
<p>Don&#8217;t do contracts. Your pay will suffer and your resume will keep you out of full time jobs. Spare yourself. </p>
<p>It turns out that every ordinary, non-tech, commodity selling business now need product managers. They don&#8217;t know it. They don&#8217;t know that they need a new vector of differentiation. They don&#8217;t know that they need recession tactics, the very ones we turned to during the dot bust. You can help them. It won&#8217;t be about capturing requirements or listening to the customer. You&#8217;ll have to innovate, mostly in the discontinuous and radical vein. They don&#8217;t know that either. But, that&#8217;s your product. That&#8217;s what you can sell. Continous is broken. </p>
<p>Going back to school might make sense right now as well. But, don&#8217;t think in terms of getting an MBA. Think about getting as far away from tech as you can. Agism and prior management experience is baggage, not an asset. </p>
<p>Then, there is dropping back to project management, or even coding. </p>
<p>Get another job fast. Full-time only. Get out of the house and do that old fashioned F2F social networking. It should be pretty obvious that you haven&#8217;t been doing that, otherwise, you would have already called your next employer and dropped your box off at your new cubicle. Too much listening to customers can do that to a PM. </p>
<p>At the end of each day, look hard for things to appreciate. Express your gratitude for those things. </p>
<p>Someone posted on China needing PMs.</p>
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		<title>By: Paco</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3017</link>
		<dc:creator>Paco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:50:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3017</guid>
		<description>And for Dr. J.A.&#039;s suggestion, I actually recommend some other positions in an upcoming installment.  

My take, though, is that most Product Managers don&#039;t have a PMI/PMP cert.  And PMI/PMP is a pretty big deal - those guys have been much more successful in establishing an industry-standard certification.  So if you have a PMI/PMP cert, go for it.  Otherwise, can&#039;t hurt to try for those positions, but you may be at a disadvantage to a PMI/PMP dude.  I know, I know - sounds completely opposite of how Product Managers value certifications, but that&#039;s the way I see it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And for Dr. J.A.&#8217;s suggestion, I actually recommend some other positions in an upcoming installment.  </p>
<p>My take, though, is that most Product Managers don&#8217;t have a PMI/PMP cert.  And PMI/PMP is a pretty big deal &#8211; those guys have been much more successful in establishing an industry-standard certification.  So if you have a PMI/PMP cert, go for it.  Otherwise, can&#8217;t hurt to try for those positions, but you may be at a disadvantage to a PMI/PMP dude.  I know, I know &#8211; sounds completely opposite of how Product Managers value certifications, but that&#8217;s the way I see it.</p>
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		<title>By: Paco</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3016</link>
		<dc:creator>Paco</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:38:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3016</guid>
		<description>Indeed, CPM, thanks for pointing out that there is an arc to this tale of woe - though I certainly don&#039;t mind the good-wishes and what-not :)

However, what I&#039;d like to hear is what you still-employed PMs think you &lt;i&gt;could/should&lt;/i&gt; do to heighten your value.  

As for my situation, I know why I was axed, and I know how to avoid the same mistake the next go-around.  But let&#039;s try to think of ways that the still-employed can avoid the axe altogether.  Besides foot rubs.  Oooooh, a good foot rub would be sweet right now...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Indeed, CPM, thanks for pointing out that there is an arc to this tale of woe &#8211; though I certainly don&#8217;t mind the good-wishes and what-not :)</p>
<p>However, what I&#8217;d like to hear is what you still-employed PMs think you <i>could/should</i> do to heighten your value.  </p>
<p>As for my situation, I know why I was axed, and I know how to avoid the same mistake the next go-around.  But let&#8217;s try to think of ways that the still-employed can avoid the axe altogether.  Besides foot rubs.  Oooooh, a good foot rub would be sweet right now&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Stewart Rogers</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/guide-unemployed-product-manager-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3015</link>
		<dc:creator>Stewart Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 01:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1117#comment-3015</guid>
		<description>Fair enough, wasn&#039;t clear where he was heading with this.

I do believe that if you are providing value, you are more likely to be safe than if you are not. However, I will give you that this is not 100% true in all cases. In your case, sounds like there was a traumatic shift in strategy (likely due to lack of funds).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair enough, wasn&#8217;t clear where he was heading with this.</p>
<p>I do believe that if you are providing value, you are more likely to be safe than if you are not. However, I will give you that this is not 100% true in all cases. In your case, sounds like there was a traumatic shift in strategy (likely due to lack of funds).</p>
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