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	<title>Comments on: The Cranky Product Manager Responds to the Cranky Sales Engineer &#8211; Part 1</title>
	<atom:link href="http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/</link>
	<description>Product management, product marketing, and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
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		<title>By: Penelope Product</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2930</link>
		<dc:creator>Penelope Product</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:30:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2930</guid>
		<description>No wonder the Sales Engineer is cranky. It must be so lonely and soul defeating to be the &lt;i&gt;only Sales Engineer out there&lt;/i&gt; wanting to sell &quot;real things that exist today&quot;.  Poor thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No wonder the Sales Engineer is cranky. It must be so lonely and soul defeating to be the <i>only Sales Engineer out there</i> wanting to sell &#8220;real things that exist today&#8221;.  Poor thing.</p>
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		<title>By: Janet Jozefak</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-4718</link>
		<dc:creator>Janet Jozefak</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 11:02:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-4718</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;TOO FUNNY RT @crankypm: New blog post: The Cranky Product Manager Responds to the Cranky Sales Engineer - Part 1 http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">TOO FUNNY RT @crankypm: New blog post: The Cranky Product Manager Responds to the Cranky Sales Engineer &#8211; Part 1 <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Mark Sigler</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2913</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Sigler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 18:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2913</guid>
		<description>Basic presentation skills suggest limiting the number of bullet points, and please don&#039;t read the slides to me... I can read. Elaborate on the key [bullet] points, but don&#039;t read. Maybe you could do a whiteboard session and make it interactive?

It&#039;s a shame that the field and corp are so disconnected that they only interact once a year at kickoff, but that&#039;s how many corps run things. Routine updates from to PM to the SE&#039;s, and better yet, get the SE&#039;s into the lab with the PM&#039;s to learn new features.

Finally, I think I&#039;m a better AE (Sales Rep) when I know how the product works; and I&#039;m a better SE (pre-sales) resource when I understand the benefits and how to convey those in a compelling way to the prospect; and I&#039;m a better PM (prod mgmt/prod mktg) when I spend time in the field with the AE&#039;s and SE&#039;s and customers to understand what works/sells.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Basic presentation skills suggest limiting the number of bullet points, and please don&#8217;t read the slides to me&#8230; I can read. Elaborate on the key [bullet] points, but don&#8217;t read. Maybe you could do a whiteboard session and make it interactive?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a shame that the field and corp are so disconnected that they only interact once a year at kickoff, but that&#8217;s how many corps run things. Routine updates from to PM to the SE&#8217;s, and better yet, get the SE&#8217;s into the lab with the PM&#8217;s to learn new features.</p>
<p>Finally, I think I&#8217;m a better AE (Sales Rep) when I know how the product works; and I&#8217;m a better SE (pre-sales) resource when I understand the benefits and how to convey those in a compelling way to the prospect; and I&#8217;m a better PM (prod mgmt/prod mktg) when I spend time in the field with the AE&#8217;s and SE&#8217;s and customers to understand what works/sells.</p>
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		<title>By: David R. Johnson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-4719</link>
		<dc:creator>David R. Johnson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 06:13:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-4719</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Cranky Product Manager is entertaining, but insightful!   http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Cranky Product Manager is entertaining, but insightful!   <a href="http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/c97dk7</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Richard</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2910</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 04:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2910</guid>
		<description>Have to agree with the CSE on only 7 words per slide. Anymore and they&#039;re not listening to you, they&#039;re reading the bullet points.

Prepare a handout with the bullet points and keep to 7 words a slide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Have to agree with the CSE on only 7 words per slide. Anymore and they&#8217;re not listening to you, they&#8217;re reading the bullet points.</p>
<p>Prepare a handout with the bullet points and keep to 7 words a slide.</p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2909</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 03 Feb 2009 03:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2909</guid>
		<description>Yes, &quot;And hats off to you for wanting to sell what exists today. That makes you a rarity among Sales Droids. Really.&quot; I&#039;ve seen sales reps, not SEs, selling the next version long before its release, and doing that meant that they were not selling the latest version. It killed the company. Where was our cash flow? 

On the slides, use those six words to sell the SEs on listening to the heavy technical talk to come. 

On the confidential, insert some disinformation that you want your competitors to have. Insert different disinformation in each presentation. Eventually, you will know who the source is. If this sounds nuts, I used to use a product where the marcom said it supported MS Project, hardly, just barely, and only if you could see all the reporting, exporting, cleaning, and importing involved--tasks that were not automated. We paid for a subscription, so they had to give us something--a marcom release! 

In another company, we had a market leading competitor that read all our marcom and beat us to market. Competitors don&#039;t really need your presentations. If you listen to the same customers you will converge unless you actively change your vector of differentiation on some dimension in each release.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, &#8220;And hats off to you for wanting to sell what exists today. That makes you a rarity among Sales Droids. Really.&#8221; I&#8217;ve seen sales reps, not SEs, selling the next version long before its release, and doing that meant that they were not selling the latest version. It killed the company. Where was our cash flow? </p>
<p>On the slides, use those six words to sell the SEs on listening to the heavy technical talk to come. </p>
<p>On the confidential, insert some disinformation that you want your competitors to have. Insert different disinformation in each presentation. Eventually, you will know who the source is. If this sounds nuts, I used to use a product where the marcom said it supported MS Project, hardly, just barely, and only if you could see all the reporting, exporting, cleaning, and importing involved&#8211;tasks that were not automated. We paid for a subscription, so they had to give us something&#8211;a marcom release! </p>
<p>In another company, we had a market leading competitor that read all our marcom and beat us to market. Competitors don&#8217;t really need your presentations. If you listen to the same customers you will converge unless you actively change your vector of differentiation on some dimension in each release.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2907</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:16:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2907</guid>
		<description>Bill,

Great spot.  3 years ago, I started adopting the no talk to the sales team before 90 days prior to FCS.  That went over like a fart in church.  The senior managers kept talking about the upcoming developments to make it look like we were doing things.  

In the last case, letting the cat out of the bag a whole year early, we essentially sent a quite profitable product to 0 bookings for 12 months until its replacement was available.  The sales team was waiting for the futures.

Grrrrrrr.

Geoff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bill,</p>
<p>Great spot.  3 years ago, I started adopting the no talk to the sales team before 90 days prior to FCS.  That went over like a fart in church.  The senior managers kept talking about the upcoming developments to make it look like we were doing things.  </p>
<p>In the last case, letting the cat out of the bag a whole year early, we essentially sent a quite profitable product to 0 bookings for 12 months until its replacement was available.  The sales team was waiting for the futures.</p>
<p>Grrrrrrr.</p>
<p>Geoff</p>
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		<title>By: Bill S. Preston Esquire</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2906</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill S. Preston Esquire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 17:11:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2906</guid>
		<description>As far as #3 goes:

&lt;em&gt;3. Do not tell the Cranky Sales Engineer how excited you are about the future—The Cranky Sales Engineer makes money selling real things that exist today…&lt;/em&gt;

Tell you what, let&#039;s agree that we won&#039;t get excited about upcoming features, if you stop trying to sell them before they get released.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as #3 goes:</p>
<p><em>3. Do not tell the Cranky Sales Engineer how excited you are about the future—The Cranky Sales Engineer makes money selling real things that exist today…</em></p>
<p>Tell you what, let&#8217;s agree that we won&#8217;t get excited about upcoming features, if you stop trying to sell them before they get released.</p>
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		<title>By: Geoffrey Anderson</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2905</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoffrey Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2905</guid>
		<description>Steve,

Great point.  I know that we (my company) often get our competitors &quot;freshest&quot; presentation material within 48 hours of first presenting, so I have to assume the flow goes the other way.  I have tried distributing slideware as encrypted PDF, encrypted PPT (what a joke either of these are), or as hard copy only, but the sale management leans mightily on me to releast it in native format.

I would love for there to be a secure vehicle to get the goods into the hands of our sales engineers, and not worry that I am feeding the competitive analysis by my competition.

Of course, my boss is super trusting, and insists that We (my team) give the sales team any and everything, including the weak points.

CPM,

Great rebuttal.  I look forward to the second post.  I share much of your pains.  I have one guy who gripes like the CSE, yet when he was exposed to the sausage making innards of the product management world, he ran screaming.  He still has unrealistic expectations (Give away all the good features free, sell nothing, help the sales team by just discounting to the lowest level, yada yada yada).

Geoff</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve,</p>
<p>Great point.  I know that we (my company) often get our competitors &#8220;freshest&#8221; presentation material within 48 hours of first presenting, so I have to assume the flow goes the other way.  I have tried distributing slideware as encrypted PDF, encrypted PPT (what a joke either of these are), or as hard copy only, but the sale management leans mightily on me to releast it in native format.</p>
<p>I would love for there to be a secure vehicle to get the goods into the hands of our sales engineers, and not worry that I am feeding the competitive analysis by my competition.</p>
<p>Of course, my boss is super trusting, and insists that We (my team) give the sales team any and everything, including the weak points.</p>
<p>CPM,</p>
<p>Great rebuttal.  I look forward to the second post.  I share much of your pains.  I have one guy who gripes like the CSE, yet when he was exposed to the sausage making innards of the product management world, he ran screaming.  He still has unrealistic expectations (Give away all the good features free, sell nothing, help the sales team by just discounting to the lowest level, yada yada yada).</p>
<p>Geoff</p>
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		<title>By: The Cranky Product Manager</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/02/product-manager-responds-sales-engineer/comment-page-1/#comment-2904</link>
		<dc:creator>The Cranky Product Manager</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Feb 2009 16:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1049#comment-2904</guid>
		<description>Howard, Steve - you&#039;re right. The cranky pm wrote this article assuming that Sales Engineers were trained separately from the Account Reps - that&#039;s the way Dysfunctosoft and every other company she&#039;s been at does it. Those two groups have completely different needs. So, if the Cranky Sales Engineer had to sit through a joint-SE-Account Rep training, well he has every right to be cranky and would definitely have many of the complaints he listed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Howard, Steve &#8211; you&#8217;re right. The cranky pm wrote this article assuming that Sales Engineers were trained separately from the Account Reps &#8211; that&#8217;s the way Dysfunctosoft and every other company she&#8217;s been at does it. Those two groups have completely different needs. So, if the Cranky Sales Engineer had to sit through a joint-SE-Account Rep training, well he has every right to be cranky and would definitely have many of the complaints he listed.</p>
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