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	<title>Comments on: Guest Post: The Cranky Marketer Goes Off (Part 1)</title>
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	<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/</link>
	<description>Product management, product marketing, and the ugly side of software product development.</description>
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		<title>By: LK</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3276</link>
		<dc:creator>LK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Mar 2009 00:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-3276</guid>
		<description>I find that much of the problem lies with the lack of a consistent job description for PMs.  Different companies have different Sales and Marketing department structures where Marketing is often ill defined.  In my experience with smaller to mid-sized companies, a structure that includes Product manager(s) with Marcom support is the ideal situation.  PMs drive the messaging and determine what is needed for marketing and sales support and then Marketing Communications executes.  One understands the product, customers and competition and the other understands graphic arts, visual optimization, email marketing, PR, web site design, SEO, etc. etc.  If they work well together, I actually think good things can happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that much of the problem lies with the lack of a consistent job description for PMs.  Different companies have different Sales and Marketing department structures where Marketing is often ill defined.  In my experience with smaller to mid-sized companies, a structure that includes Product manager(s) with Marcom support is the ideal situation.  PMs drive the messaging and determine what is needed for marketing and sales support and then Marketing Communications executes.  One understands the product, customers and competition and the other understands graphic arts, visual optimization, email marketing, PR, web site design, SEO, etc. etc.  If they work well together, I actually think good things can happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Designer</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3273</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Designer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Mar 2009 19:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-3273</guid>
		<description>I work in a large software company and know what you are talking about. I think I know where this is going...because the marketing folks don&#039;t actually understand the products, the market, or the messages and benefits, they are always asking the PMs for this info. So, if the only value they bring to the table is posting the presentation that you (the PM) spent 3 nights creating, then why do they have a job? Oh, wait, I turned into a cranky pm (lower case), instead of the Cranky Designer - that&#039;s a whole &#039;nother story related to fugly screenshots...
CD</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I work in a large software company and know what you are talking about. I think I know where this is going&#8230;because the marketing folks don&#8217;t actually understand the products, the market, or the messages and benefits, they are always asking the PMs for this info. So, if the only value they bring to the table is posting the presentation that you (the PM) spent 3 nights creating, then why do they have a job? Oh, wait, I turned into a cranky pm (lower case), instead of the Cranky Designer &#8211; that&#8217;s a whole &#8216;nother story related to fugly screenshots&#8230;<br />
CD</p>
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		<title>By: Melody Jones</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4720</link>
		<dc:creator>Melody Jones</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:47:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-4720</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;Can&#039;t wait for Part 2 - RT @crankypm New blog post: Guest Post: The Cranky Marketer Goes Off (Part 1) http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">Can&#8217;t wait for Part 2 &#8211; RT @crankypm New blog post: Guest Post: The Cranky Marketer Goes Off (Part 1) <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: Gander</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3267</link>
		<dc:creator>Gander</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 14:55:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-3267</guid>
		<description>Great post, and I look forward to future installments.

Alas, I have never worked in a place that differentiated Product Management from Product Marketing.  We do both.  Some (very few) people can do both, many can&#039;t do either, and it is the bane of my existence, balancing the two roles, and trying to recruit people who can do the whole enchilada.

I tend to agree with David&#039;s assertion above.  To do marketing (true marketing) you need to understand the product, the market (audience) and how to effectively communicate.  In my world, our marketing communications group (loosely aligned with your description of marketing), is more of a service organization.  They can schedule blasts, webcasts, mag ads, etc, but they know dangerously little about the products and the technology, so they really can&#039;t work without heavy intervention.

In the dim past, we had a leader in that group that forced all the marketeers under her to get their hands dirty and understand our products (hardware and SW), so that they could intuit the best vehicles for communications.

Alas, that level of competency has gone by the wayside, and we are burdened with a group that is not much better than FedEx-Kinkos.  Pretty good at turning around an order, but no real marketing.

I anxiously await the next installment(s)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, and I look forward to future installments.</p>
<p>Alas, I have never worked in a place that differentiated Product Management from Product Marketing.  We do both.  Some (very few) people can do both, many can&#8217;t do either, and it is the bane of my existence, balancing the two roles, and trying to recruit people who can do the whole enchilada.</p>
<p>I tend to agree with David&#8217;s assertion above.  To do marketing (true marketing) you need to understand the product, the market (audience) and how to effectively communicate.  In my world, our marketing communications group (loosely aligned with your description of marketing), is more of a service organization.  They can schedule blasts, webcasts, mag ads, etc, but they know dangerously little about the products and the technology, so they really can&#8217;t work without heavy intervention.</p>
<p>In the dim past, we had a leader in that group that forced all the marketeers under her to get their hands dirty and understand our products (hardware and SW), so that they could intuit the best vehicles for communications.</p>
<p>Alas, that level of competency has gone by the wayside, and we are burdened with a group that is not much better than FedEx-Kinkos.  Pretty good at turning around an order, but no real marketing.</p>
<p>I anxiously await the next installment(s)</p>
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		<title>By: Cranky Product Mgr</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-4721</link>
		<dc:creator>Cranky Product Mgr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 07:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-4721</guid>
		<description>&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_comment&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_twitter_username&quot;&gt;&lt;span class=&quot;topsy_trackback_content&quot;&gt;New blog post: Guest Post: The Cranky Marketer Goes Off (Part 1) http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/span&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><span class="topsy_trackback_comment"><span class="topsy_twitter_username"><span class="topsy_trackback_content">New blog post: Guest Post: The Cranky Marketer Goes Off (Part 1) <a href="http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p" rel="nofollow">http://tinyurl.com/cm3v9p</a></span></span></span></p>
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		<title>By: David Locke</title>
		<link>http://crankypm.com/2009/03/guest-post-cranky-marketer-part-1/comment-page-1/#comment-3264</link>
		<dc:creator>David Locke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 00:53:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://crankypm.com/?p=1199#comment-3264</guid>
		<description>If you SEM/SEO for your how do you escape knowing your customers? Are there holes in your content? Are you tuning your content with aggregate statistics, but not keeping track of each customer&#039;s flow through your content? Are your offers not self-selected offers, or offers that segment? Are the segments you defined based on demographics and averages? Do those segments actually fit those that traverse your content?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you SEM/SEO for your how do you escape knowing your customers? Are there holes in your content? Are you tuning your content with aggregate statistics, but not keeping track of each customer&#8217;s flow through your content? Are your offers not self-selected offers, or offers that segment? Are the segments you defined based on demographics and averages? Do those segments actually fit those that traverse your content?</p>
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